A Tearful Salute to Marianne Lordi
August 15, 2009, 08:35
Filed under: Uncategorized

Dissenting voices are welcome at Willohroots.  People who have the courage to speak against the writer are to be commended.  People who do so based on an honest biblical faith, doubly so.  Marianne Lordi  left a response to Tearful Salute.  That required a response that is this post,  Marianne, and readers, please take this in the spirit that I wrote it, one of humble love of you and of the Savior that taught me to love my God.

The most popular post on this blog is, “Close the Church of Christian Criticism”.  This is written out of a feeling of repentance festering in me for decades of being a critic myself.  I know we need to stand firm for doctrine, and never has one of my sermons been criticized for lack of a biblical base. [other criticisms abound, but not that one!]  I feel we save Satan a lot of trouble by sniping at ourselves, and in the disunity we show as the bride of Christ.  Christ seems to have a bi-polar bride who fights with herself at every opportunity.

I reply to Marianne as I have replied to many of my own flock, in love, but with the conviction of my spirit brought about by years of dedication to being lead by the Holy Spirit.  If the tone of love does not flow in my words, blame my writing skills, not my heart or my intent.

Joel Olsteen is a motivational speaker , who at the end of his sermon suggests that people go to a bible church.

I personally would never sit under him, there is no meat , there is no milk, there is no meal. To the millions of the unchurched and depressed in America, he may well be the only one in their lives who tells them to go to church. He is even specific in telling people to go to a bible based church. This means that he is advertising for me. Please explain how demonizing him will lead anyone to Christ.  My comment was, “he is not Satan”.  He is not.  Jesus loves Joel Olsteen, and please remember we have a God who can use a donkey to get His word out.  We are called to love even such as Joel, and I welcome people in my church who have been broken,[some by the church]  and turned to Olsteen for a positive word. I suppose none of them to be either saved or educated in scripture.

Suppose an innocent seeker followed Joel’s advice and went to a bible preaching church to find Jesus.  How effective is it to save that soul to

by demonizing  the one who referred him or her to come in the first place?  I can’t have it.  I confess I have done it myself,  God forgive me if I was ever a stumbling block to Salvation.

One of Rick Warren’s big classes, thousands in number,is discribed as the following,  ” ‘Fresh Start with God’  is designed to encourage, equip and assimilate new and recommitted believers as they grow in their relationship with Jesus Christ.” Please criticize this title. Have you listened to a few Rick Warren sermon’s before you made your pronouncement of his heresy?   I got up early this morning to listen to a few before I posted my reply to you, as I wish to be fair. It is not my style, it is his style, and I can see his appeal, and he does preach Christ. From 205 people on Easter Sunday 1980 to 22,000 last Sunday, he has grown a church a little.  Do you think none of them saved?  If you are repeating the mantra that Warren does not preach Christ, without listening to him preach, you have become a gossip, not by my judgement, but by the Bible’s.  God forgives us when we forgive others, recognize our sin and turn from it.

Marianne, you are convinced that Rick Warren will pay a price at the Judgement.  We can not do this!  God looks at the secret places of the heart, we can not do that.   Jesus said he did not come to judge, yet you and I wish to do that which the Blessed Savior refused to do.  He will judge when the time is right.  We are the branches, Jesus the true vine, God the Gardener, He will prune or cause to flourish whom He will.   Please, I beg of you, do not put yourself in such a dangerous position as presuming to judge, for with the same measurement we use to judge will we be judged ourselves.  I could not stand to such a judgement, and you can not either, for we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  Is Christ’s blood not effective for the cleansing of Rick Warren’s sins?

Google Rick Warren, the first  4 or 5 pages are criticisms and denouncements.  Does this serve the Kingdom of Christ?  Why are there more pages criticizing Warren than Todd Bently or Andrew Womack?  I will post some possible reasons.

  • It is easier to be  a Saturday morning quarterback then to get on the field
  • Guys from little churches like mine are jealous,  envy motivates them to find fault
  • He doesn’t do things the way you or I would
  • He is not perfect, therefore there really are points to pick on and be correct about
  • When you stand up for Christ, rocks will be thrown.
  • Most of us on the internet are so desperate for readers that we will join the criticize club to get some hits
  • It is easier to use the bible to see the sins of others than to use the bible as a mirror to see the depths of our own sin.

I salute you Marianne for your desire for the Gospel,  and I love you for your love of the Lord.  We most likely share a doctrinal statement with very little deviation.  I wish you were in my church, and were my friend, but as I said in the post you responded to, will you allow me to stand with you?  Am I ” out of the club” for my opinions?   I have been thrown out of a few churches, so that is not a new experience for me.  Somehow, through Divine Providence he has given me a pulpit and a mission in life, things I was too foolish to seek, so He must have some purpose to drive my life. [ sorry I just had to do that]  By the way, I did not think much of Rick Warren’s book,  “Purpose Driven Life”, not enough bible for me, but he is still my brother.

I wish to comment on one more thing, and it is a personal beef of mine.

“As it says in James,if you desire wisdom on a matter, ask and God will give it to you. Pray about it. God bless you.”

This implies that if I would just pray and seek God’s wisdom,  I would end up agreeing with you.  My dear believer,  the distance from God’s mouth to you ear is no shorter than from His to mine. In this statement is the crux of the matter ,  Christianity is not a competitive sport!  There is no “I am more saved than you are”  we are saved!  The only possible measure of our faith is the fruit of our works. Have you brought 22,00o people to church lately?   Me neither.

I do salute you. Thank you for allowing me to use you to show the source of the tear in my eye.

11 Comments so far
Leave a comment

My Reformed friend, can you move among other Christian groups and really enjoy them? Do you admire them? Even if you disagree with them in some ways, do you learn from them? What is the emotional tilt of your heart – toward them or away from them? If your Reformed theology has morphed functionally into Galatian sociology, the remedy is not to abandon your Reformed theology. The remedy is to take your Reformed theology to a deeper level. Let it reduce you to Jesus only. Let it humble you. Let this gracious doctrine make you a fun person to be around. The proof that we are Reformed will be all the wonderful Christians we discover around us who are not Reformed. Amazing people. Heroic people. Blood-bought people. People with whom we are eternally one – in Christ alone.

Comment by Ike

There are so many things that I would like to respond to your commentary on me but it would take too much time and probably would change nothing. First of all, please do not take offense from anything I said as none was intended. I am sorry if you took it as such. There are a few things that I would like to say if you would permit me.

First of all, a large church means nothing as Christ said that in the ending times, men would flock to hear that which tickles their ears. Numbers mean nothing. Wide is the road that leads to destruction and many are on it. Narrow is the road to life and FEW find it. I don’t care about how big a church is. I am sure there are saved people in Warren and Olsteens churches. However, they are saved despite the fact that they are hearing a watered down gospel. I stand by what I said. Just because Olsteen tells viewers to join a bible based church, does that mitigate the way he preaches a half truth? A half truth is still a lie. Do you think someone is going to join a church just because Olsteen says they should?

And and I would like to add a thought from 2 Timothy – Paul is speaking of godlessness in the last days. He speaks about the the terrible things people will be doing in that time and adds: “Have nothing to do with them”. Now I ask you, how do you discern those who are acting godless and then having nothing to do with them without judging them to be so? You are to judge and Christ has given you his Word for you to use. You will know a tree by its fruit!! The Holy Spirit will guide believers in discernment on who you should not listen to. Yes, I did hear Rick Warrens sermons. I have listened extensively to Joel Olsteen. I have seen them both interviewed on Larry King. You took offense at me saying ask for guidance in this matter. I was not saying that I am more saved than you are. You judged me there! But I sense you have an underlying anger against me in my comment. For that, I apologize as I meant nothing unkind. You can do what you would with what I say. There are enough battles int he world but there is only one truth. May God open our eyes to see his way and not our own. And may God forgive me if I ever darken God’s counsel with words without knowledge! (Job)

Comment by Marianne Lordi

If I am judging, I am judging you to be a stalwart believer with good doctrine, please do not missunderstand. I am using you as an example of how we Christians can be critical. My brush has been too broad, and for that I seek forgiveness, I honestly salute you and wish you the best! i hope you stop by to keep me on my toes, I just wish there was a way to avoid having the World see ussnipe at each other, please trust me, the unbelievers just do not get it, and the Cause of the Kingdom is not strengthened by this. Thank you for being a good sport, my sister.

Comment by willohroots

But you must keep people informed! It never was about tearing anyone down. If I knew that someone was poisoning your water slowly, should I tell you?? That is what the half-truth preachers are doing!! Please, it not about who is better or whose way is best, it is about truth. People are perishing for lack of knowledge. Wide is the road that leads to destruction and many are on it in partly because they have been fed a watered down gospel which has no power to save!!

Comment by Marianne Lordi

Amen, my beautiful sister! But we must tell the truth in love. the greatest commandments are ones of love. the medium is the message, and i have written these posts as a reaction to the blogoshere’s mean and smarmy attitude toward Christians that believe in a differing way. Perhaps my recent Wagon train post would explain it better.
Are you saved by your doctrine? Or are you saved by Yeshua, the Messiah? I love my doctrine, but I have faith for salvation only in the Savior, Jesus the Christ.
The unmistakable truth is that Rick Warren loves jesus, and is sharing that love, as he knows it, to thousands. Same with mark Driscol. Marianne, I have seen people say that billy Graham is going to hell, for errors he made! We are not to judge each other as far as our eternal fate. That is God’s job.
We look so horrible and bitter to the world when we cut each other down. Is that the witness we will show to a hell-bound world?
I love your doctrine, as far as I see in your writings, it is mine! I seek a Mars Hill attitude, where we may reason together in love. i VALUE YOUR VOICE ND YOUR OPINIONS, PLEASE KEEP CONTRIBUTING. God will bless us for our ability to put up with each other. It is the ‘mind of Christ” we are taught about in Philippians.

Comment by willohroots

That is the meat of the matter isn’t it? The church has often been referred to as “the only army that shoots it’s own wounded.”

How do we support our brothers and sisters in Christ, without supporting doctrine we know to be unbiblical?
How do we let people know there is more than the “watered down”, “prosperity” version they’re hearing so often, without criticizing the preacher of such a gospel?
How do we make sure we’re making the point, without pointing a finger?

I think we might find the answer here.
“That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.”
Ephesians 4:14-16 (King James Version)

God help us to live it.

BTW, I’m not a Rick Warren fan but the first words of A Purpose Driven Life changed my life. “It’s not about me.”

Comment by Shawn W

for some reason i feel the need to duck.

Comment by graceshaker

I’m with you willohroots! 🙂 I will be back. I enjoy your messages.

Comment by Marianne Lordi

I really try to follow scripture, “First not to offend”. God Bless you Marianne we need champions of the Faith!

Comment by willohroots

Yo Maid Marianne,

What do you think of the Roman Catholic Cult?

Catholicism and Scripture:
The Roman Catholic Church Compared to the Bible

Does the Bible teach Catholicism? Do the Scriptures authorize Roman Catholic doctrine about the church, the Pope, church councils, tradition, church law, the mass, Mary, priesthood?

Can the teaching and practices of the Roman Catholic Church be found in the Bible? What about the authority of the Pope, church councils, tradition, and church law? Do the Scriptures authorize the teachings of Catholicism about the Mass (eucharist), transubstantiation, purgatory, indulgences, abstinence, celibacy, Lent, confession to priests, communion, immaculate conception, the perpetual virginity of Mary, and prayer to saints and Mary? Is the Catholic church really the one true church according to the Bible?


The Roman Catholic church teaches that it is the original church built by Jesus and that non-Catholic churches are departures from Catholicism. The New Testament often warns us of the danger of false teaching and apostasy (Acts 20:28-30; 2 Tim. 4:2-4; I Tim. 4:1-3). The question to be considered by all honest people, then, is whether the Catholic church is the original true church and others are apostate, or whether the Catholic church is itself an apostasy.

The way to answer this question is to compare the teachings of the Catholic church to the teachings of Jesus as revealed in the New Testament. The claim of the Catholic church to be the true and original church is a valid claim if and only if the teaching and practice of the Catholic church agrees with the New Testament (2 Tim. 3:16,17; I Cor. 14:37; Matt. 7:15-27; 2 John 9-11; Gal. 1:6-9; I John 2:3-6; John 8:31,32).

Let us consider the teaching of the Catholic church regarding several subjects of major interest (such as the Pope, church councils, tradition, church law, the Mass or eucharist, transubstantiation, purgatory, indulgences, abstinence, celibacy, Lent, confession to priests, communion, immaculate conception, the perpetual virginity of Mary, and prayer to saints and Mary). On each point we will simply let the Catholic church speak for itself by quoting from its authorized books. Then we will compare that to what is taught in the Catholic Bible itself. Please see the bibliography for specific information regarding the sources cited.

In addition to the Bible, Catholicism also follows tradition and the decrees of the Pope and church councils as religious authority.

“Did God intend that the Bible alone should be the guide to salvation? No, because certain things in the Bible can be misunderstood, and because the Bible does not have everything God taught” – Catechism, p. 51.

“Do we get from the Bible alone all our knowledge and certainty about what God has told us? No, there is also Sacred Tradition … What is tradition? The Word of God handed on to us by the Apostles in their preaching and by their successors in the church to the present day … Do you have to believe in tradition? Yes … we are obliged to accept all the truths contained in the Bible and Tradition…” – Catechism, pp. 9,10.

“Council … assemblies of the rulers of the Church legally convoked, for the discussion and decision of ecclesiastical affairs … The decrees of general councils have no binding authority till confirmed by the Pope … The infallibility of general councils so confirmed follows from that of the Church…” – Dictionary, pp. 227-230.

“Does Jesus require us to follow the Pope in matters of religion? Yes, because obedience and loyalty to the Pope are among the chief requirements of Our Lord’s plan for unity … Can the Pope make an error when teaching religion? Not when he is speaking solemnly (ex cathedra) as head of the church. Then he has that special protection from error which God gives as a spiritual safeguard for all the members of the church” – Catechism, p. 56.

But the Bible teaches:

1. The original apostles received all the truth we need to guide us to eternal life, and they wrote this down in the Scriptures (John 16:13; 2 Pet. 1:3; Acts 20:20,27; Matt. 28:20; I Cor. 14:37; 2 Tim. 3:16,17).

2. The teachings of these inspired writers can be understood by the common people. We do not need official interpreters to understand the word, but we should use the word to check out the teachers! (Mark 7:14; 2 Tim. 3:16,17; John 20:30,31; Acts 17:11; Psa. 119:105)

3. We displease God when we follow tradition or church laws or any human standard as the source of authority for the church (Matt. 15:1-14; Col. 2:8; Gal. 1:6-9; Prov. 14:12; 2 John 9-11; Jer. 10:23).

Catholicism teaches that the Pope is the earthly head of the church.

“The Pope, who is the bishop of Rome and the Vicar of Christ on earth … is the visible head of the whole Catholic Church … Who was the first Pope? St. Peter, who was made Pope by Jesus Christ Himself … Did Peter’s authority die with him? No, it was handed down to a man named Linus, and after he died, it was handed down to another, and so on, during the past 2000 years” – Catechism, pp. 55,56. Below the Pope in the church hierarchy are various levels of cardinals, bishops, priests, etc.

“The law of the [Roman] Church forbids persons living in the married state to be ordained, and persons in holy orders [priests, etc.], to marry” – Dictionary, p. 132.

But the Bible teaches:

1. Jesus is the Head, foundation, and chief shepherd of the church (Eph. 1:22,23; Col. 1:18; Matt. 28:18; I Cor. 3:11; Acts 4:10,11; I Pet. 2:3-8; John 10:11,14; I Pet. 5:4; Heb. 13:20). For the church to have two heads (Jesus and the Pope) would be spiritual adultery, like a woman having two husbands (cf. Eph. 5:22-24 to Rom. 7:2,3).

Note on Matt. 16:18 – The “rock” on which Jesus built His church is not Peter, but it is the truth that Jesus is the Son of God (v13-17). In this context, Jesus is not confessing and exalting Peter; rather, Peter is confessing and exalting Jesus! The “rock” on which the church is built (Greek PETRA) is a solid ledge of stone. It is not the same as Peter (Greek PETROS, a stone), but is contrasted to Him. This agrees with I Cor. 3:11 and other verses listed above, which show Jesus is the foundation of the church.

2. Peter had no greater authority than the other apostles (2 Cor. 11:5; 12:11,12). All had power to bind and loose by preaching the gospel guided by the Holy Spirit (cf. Matt. 16:19 to 18:18; John 20:22f; and Mark 16:15,16; John 16:13; Gal. 1:11,12). Peter had the “keys” to be the first one to preach this gospel and open the door to both Jews and Gentiles to enter the church (Acts 2 and Acts 10), but others preached as much and as effectively as he did (I Cor. 15:10).

3. Peter did not fit the pattern of modern Popes. He was married (Matt. 8:14; I Cor. 9:5). He refused to allow men to bow to honor him religiously (Acts 10:25,26). He wore no exalted title such as “Father” (Matt. 23:9).

4. No one today can be a successor to Peter or to any other apostle. Apostles had to be eyewitnesses of the resurrected Christ (Acts 1:21,22; I Cor. 9:1; 15:8; Acts 2:32; 3:15; etc.). Apostles confirmed their apostleship by doing miracles (2 Cor. 12:12; Mark 16:20; Acts 3:1-10; 9:32-42; etc.). Those who received this miraculous power from the apostles, could not in turn pass it on to others (Acts 8:5-18).

5. Marriage is honorable for all, including apostles and bishops (Heb. 13:4; Matt. 8:14; I Cor. 9:5; I Tim. 3:2,4; Tit. 1:5-7). It is a clear sign of apostacy to forbid people to marry (I Tim. 4:1-3).

Catholicism teaches that the elements in communion become the literal flesh and blood of Jesus.

“The Holy Eucharist is the Sacrament in which Jesus Christ is really and physically present under the appearances of bread and wine … [T]he appearances of the bread and wine (taste, smell, color, size, shape, weight) did not change, even though the bread and wine were actually changed into the Body and Blood of Jesus. The substance of the bread and wine are changed into the substance of the body and blood of Jesus. This change is called transubstantiation.

“When does the priest change bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus? At Mass, when he says, ‘This is my Body. This is My Blood.’ …

“What is the Mass? The sacrifice of the Cross, the sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, offered in an unbloody manner under the appearances of bread and wine … Who offered the first Mass? Jesus offered the first Mass at the Last Supper when He changed the bread and wine into His Body and Blood … Is the sacrifice of the Mass the same as the sacrifice of the cross? Yes, they are the same…” – Catechism, pp. 69-76.

But the Bible teaches:

1. Even after Jesus said “This is my body … This is my blood,” the elements were still described as “fruit of the vine,” “bread,” and “cup.” Both statements cannot be taken physically. (Matt. 26:29; I Cor. 11:26-28)

2. Jesus’ sacrifice was not repeated, so the mass cannot be the same sacrifice offered today (Heb. 7:26,27; 9:24-28; 10:9,10; I Pet. 3:18).

3. Jesus could not have offered a sacrifice (the “first mass”) before He died because the Old Testament was still in effect then, and He could not serve as a priest under that testament (Heb. 7:12-14; 8:4; 9:15,16).

4. Changing bread and wine to flesh and blood would require a miracle. True miracles could always be verified by the physical evidence that the change had occurred (cf. John 2:1-11), yet Catholicism admits there is no evidence of change in the bread and cup. Furthermore, miracles have ceased and cannot occur since the “perfect” written word was completed (I Cor. 13:8-13; cf. Jude 3; James 1:25).

5. Drinking blood is forbidden (Acts 15:29).

6. “This is my body … This is my blood” refers, not to the physical substance of the elements, but to their spiritual significance. Other similar statements of Jesus are: “I am the door … I am the vine” (John 10:7,9; 15:1,5).

In a memorial, one thing is used to remind us of another thing. The memorial is never physically and literally the thing it reminds us of (cf. I Cor. 11:24,25 to Ex. 12:11-14). If I show you a picture and say, “This is my wife,” you do not conclude that my wife is a piece of photographic paper. The picture is a memorial which reminds me of my wife. So the bread and fruit of the vine are elements which remind us of Jesus’ body and blood.

Catholicism exalts Mary to a super-human position, and prays to her and to saints.

“…the Blessed Virgin can do whatever she pleases both in heaven and on earth … At the command of Mary, all obey, even God … God grants the prayers of Mary as if they were commands … Yes, Mary is omnipotent … for the queen by every law enjoys the same privileges as the king … Since the mother, then, should have the same power as the Son, rightly has Jesus, who is omnipotent, made Mary also omnipotent … whatever the Mother asks for, the Son never denies her” – Glories, pp. 154-156.

“Catholics believe that the Blessed Virgin was free from all actual sin because of divine tradition confirmed by the Council of Trent” – Question Box, p. 360.

“The Church teaches us that [Mary] was always a Virgin – a Virgin before her espousals, during her married life and after her spouse’s death” – Faith of Our Fathers, p. 138.

“…the Eternal Father … besides giving us Jesus Christ, our principal Advocate with Him, was pleased also to give us Mary, as our Advocate with Jesus Christ … He has placed the whole price of redemption in the hands of Mary, that she may dispense it at will .. [T]he way of salvation is open to none otherwise than through Mary .. No one is saved but through thee … Whoever asks and expects to obtain graces without the intercession of Mary, endeavors to fly without wings … [A]ll graces are dispensed by Mary, and … all who are saved are saved only by the means of this Divine Mother…” – Glories, pp. 169,85,143f,8.

“O most pure Virgin Mary, I worship thy most holy heart … It is … well to say the rosary kneeling, before an image of Mary” -Glories, pp. 104,508.

Catholic prayer books contain examples of prayers that members should pray to Mary or to other saints (see “The Confiteor” in Catechism, p. 135, and “Prayer to St. Joseph” in St. Pius X Daily Missal, p. 1031).
But the Bible teaches:

1. Jesus was born from Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). He possessed His divine characteristics in common with God and His human characteristics in common with Mary. Hence, He possesses omnipotence because of His Deity (John 1:1-3,14; Phil. 2:6-11; Col. 2:9; Eph. 1:19-23). But Mary would not share in Jesus’ Divine characteristics. To say she is omnipotent would exalt her to the position of Deity.

2. Deity is sinless (Deut. 32:4). Though Jesus has always been God, He came to earth as a man and lived sinlessly (2 Cor. 5:21; I John 3:5; I Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15). All other humans sin (Rom. 3:10,12,23). That includes Mary. To say Mary is sinless would exalt her to Deity and make God a liar (I John 1:8,10).

3. Virginity before marriage is a virtue, but after marriage it is not a virtue (Heb. 13:4). In fact, to refuse the sexual union with one’s marriage spouse is a sin because it tempts one’s spouse to commit fornication (I Cor. 7:2-5). Jesus had “brothers and sisters” in the very same sense that Mary was His “mother” (Matt. 12:46-50; Mark 6:3). (Note that “sister” never refers in the gospel to a cousin or more distant relative. There was a different Greek word for a female cousin or kinswoman – Luke 1:36.)

4. Jesus is our only mediator and advocate with God in prayer and in salvation (I Tim. 2:5; I John 2:1,2). Only God can dispense forgiveness (Mk. 2:7- 12). Salvation is only through Jesus (Acts 4:12; Heb. 5:9).

5. We worship only Deity, not created beings (Matt. 4:10; Rom. 1:23,25). We must not bow or kneel to any created being or statue in religious honor (Acts 10:25,26; Rev. 22:8,9; 19:10). To honor Mary as Catholics do is idolatry (I John 5:21).

Catholicism observes special holy days when eating meat is forbidden.

Lent: “A fast of forty days preceding Easter … There is no mention in Scripture of the observance of Lent, or, indeed, or any determined time for fasting among Christians” – Dictionary, p. 512.

“What is abstinence? The Church’s law of abstinence says that on certain days you may not eat meat … What are the days of obligatory abstinence? Ash Wednesday and all the Fridays of Lent” – Catechism, p. 132.

But the Bible teaches:

1. The Lord’s supper is the only New Testament memorial with any regular, fixed time frequency. It is a memorial of Jesus’ death observed each first day of the week (I Cor. 11:23-26; Acts 20:7).

2. Gal. 4:10,11 expressly warns of the danger of giving religious significance to days not authorized by God.

3. Binding that people must not eat meats at certain times is a clear evidence of apostasy (I Tim. 4:1-3).

Catholicism teaches there is, after death, a place of temporary punishment which can be escaped by the merits of other people.

“What is purgatory? A place and state of temporary punishment after death … Who goes to purgatory? Those … 1) who die while guilty of unrepented venial sins 2) who die without having done sufficient penance to pay the debt of the temporal punishment still due their past sins … Where do you go when you leave purgatory? To heaven to be with God … Can you help the souls in purgatory? You can shorten their stay by having Masses said for them, praying for them and doing good works for them” – Catechism, pp. 37-39.

Regarding indulgences, we are told: “The Church has recourse to the infinite merits of Christ … and to the merits of saints who have done penance more than sufficient to pay the temporal punishment due to their own sins … their actions had a penitential character which availed for others if not needed for themselves” – Dictionary, p. 441.

In other words, people in the past did more good works than they themselves needed to get out of purgatory. By meeting the conditions set down by the priest, you can claim the benefit of these good works, so you or a loved one get out of purgatory sooner. That is an indulgence.
But the Bible teaches:

1. After death, there will be no crossing over from the place of punishment to the place of reward (Luke 16:26). Hence, our eternal destinies are fixed at the time of death and cannot be changed by anything we or anyone else does.

2. Each person will be rewarded according to what he personally did in the body (Ezek. 18:20; 2 Cor. 5:10). No one’s reward or punishment after death can be determined by what other people do.

3. No human has any excess good deeds beyond what he himself needs (Rom. 3:9-18,23; I John 1:8,10; James 2:10; Luke 17:10).

4. God is no respecter of persons. Wealthy people have no advantage over poor people regarding their destiny after death (Acts 10:34,35; James 2:1-9; 2 Cor. 8:12; Mark 12:41-44). But since the priest gets paid to say masses for the dead, the doctrine of purgatory lets people who are rich (or who have rich relatives) escape punishment sooner than poor people.

Catholicism teaches that sins must be confessed to a priest to be forgiven.

“Who has the power to forgive sin today? All bishops and priests of the Catholic Church can forgive sin … What do you have to do to have your sins forgiven? You have to be truly sorry for them and confess them to a Catholic priest … Does the priest merely pray that your sins will be forgiven? No, acting as God’s instrument and ordained minister, he truly forgives the sins” – Catechism, pp. 78.

But the Bible teaches:

1. Only God can forgive sins (Mark 2:7-12).

2. “The words ‘priest,’ ‘priesthood’ … are never applied in the New Testament to the office of the Christian ministry. All Christians are priests (I Pet. 2:5,9; Apoc. 5:10)” – Dictionary, p. 692. (Note that this is the admission of an official Catholic reference work.)

3. All Christians can pray to God through Christ for forgiveness of their own sins (Acts 8:22; Matt. 6:12).

4. Any Christian can pray for the forgiveness of another Christian; but they only pray – they cannot actually forgive the sin. And all righteous men (not some special priestly class) do this for one another (James 5:16).

5. The only mediator between us and God is Jesus (I Tim. 2:5).

We must conclude that, despite its claims, the Catholic church is not the true, original church since it does not follow the teaching and practice of the original church.
Note: If you would like to study further about related Bible topics, we have a number of other study materials on our web site that should interest you. Please see the links listed below.

A Catechism for Adults, William Cogan, 1975 Edition; ACTA Foundation, Chicago, 1975.

The Catholic Dictionary or the Universal Christian Educator and Popular Encyclopedia of Religious Information, William E. Addis and Thomas Arnold; Christian Press Association Pub. Co., New York, (no date).

The Faith of Our Fathers, James Cardinal Gibbons, 110th Edition; P. J. Kenedy and Sons, New York, 1917.

The Glories of Mary, Alphonsus Maria De Ligouri, 2nd Edition; P. O’Shea, 45 Warren Street (only address given), 1890.

The Question Box, Bertrand L. Conway, 2nd Edition; The Paulist Press, New York, 1929

Comment by Dirty Harry

Marianne Lordi thinks she is THE LORD. If you say anything critical about her & her group of anti-Men group, she attempts a character assassination on you. I wish she & her friends gave more attention to what Paul the Apostle told women in the Church what to do. Ms. Lordi is one who will find it hard to do that!!!

Comment by Larry Silverstein

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: