Willohroots

Biblical Answers for a Biblically Illiterate Atheist.

So much biblical ignorance, so little time.  what do some of these “churches” teach?

This broke my heart when I read it  at http://thebeattitude.com/2009/05/28/losing-my-religion-why-i-walked-away-from-christianity/

A portion of the writer’s comments and his 20 points in blue and my answers in black.  What do you think?

The change was a culmination of things that I could no longer ignore. Faith is belief in the unseen and unprovable, but still requires a foundation for that faith. With the countless religions of the world, I began to question why the god of the Bible is more believable than all other gods worshiped on earth. With the mountain of evidence staring me in the face, my faith began to die.

Last fall, I finally moved past guilt and admitted to myself that I no longer believe in Jesus or the god of the Bible. Surprisingly it was a relief. Not because I wanted to run wild and sin freely, but because I no longer felt the weight a Christian carries. The weight of guilt, unworthiness and fear of god’s judgement. I continue to spend my days striving to be a good husband, father and son. I help others in need around me as often as I can. The big difference is I do these things today because it brings me joy, not because I believe it brings an imaginary god joy.

For those wondering, here is a condensed “Top 20 List” of the things that led to my rejection of Christianity.

1.God is wrathful, jealous, hateful, and kills nations of people like it is a bodily function. He is certainly not just or “holy” in nature.

1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

God has in His own time for His good purposes ended civilizations.  These were specific instances of specific cultures.  We do not know what would have come from those societies, God does, and He had His reasons.  We know that to bring salvation to mankind the nation of Israel had to exist,  to show the greatest love of all.  A Tribe that would endanger the existance of the branch of Jesse would need to go.  God more often showed amazing mercy to peoples, Nineveh, the Gentiles, and all who would repent.

2.The act of throwing people into infinite torture and punishment for not believing a Jewish guy from 2,000 years ago was God’s son, or unknowingly worshiping the wrong god, is extremely cruel and sadistic.

Deu 32:4 “The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he. Psa 19:1 To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.

It is truly amazing that any at all are to be with God in eternity.  I am not an expert on Hell, and praise God will never be.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The rescue is here, do not reject it and blame the rescuer!

3.The statements, “God works in mysterious ways,” or “It will all make sense in heaven,” are little more than irrational cop outs. This God allows horrible atrocities to be committed against innocent men, women and children every day.

Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience–

The world is not a terrarium run by a benign overseer making sure all is well.  The bible is clear that at one time we had a Paradise, but not now.  Satan is alive and well, and is the Prince of this world until Christ returns.  How do people see evil and attribute it to God instead of to the father of all lies? This one amazes me.  God has given us free will to be as evil as we wish.  It is as if all mankind is Job, and we are tested to see if we will curse God and die.  It looks as if some will.  How much of the evil you reject is man made?  All of it?   It is because of this evil that judgementmust come.

Genesis 6:5
The LORD saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.  GOD HAS THE SAME ISSUES WITH MAN THAT YOU DO.

4.Bloody animal and human sacrifices are illogical demands by a divine god as payment for petty wrong doings. These actions are no different than the rituals of archaic pagan religions. Not to mention the bizarre ritual of symbolically drinking human blood and eating human flesh.

Mat 12:7 “And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.

The old testament sacrifices taught that sin has a price in innocent blood.  The Lord’s table is the culmination of that and a reminder to us of the price paid for sin. To reduce the ordinance of communion to an act honoring of cannibalism is exceptionally small minded.   We are to live on the Bread of heaven, and be sustained by the life of Christ.  Each time we eat or drink we need to remember the source of our strength and life, Christ.  It is a mnemonic device, not a magic act.

Luke 22:20
In the same way He also took the cup after supper and said, “This cup is the new covenant [established by] My blood; it is shed for you.

What an amazing metaphor!  More than a metaphor, blood was the symbol of life!  This brings us into communion with each other and God.

5.If God loves us and wants us to know and believe in him, why be so completely invisible? What is the purpose of being so illusive to those who believe and worship him?

I do not find Him illusive at all. He is always there for me, always.

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

How would it be faith if it were concrete before you?  Such is the test.  The odd thing about the testis that it is open book, and He will provide you with a measure of faith if you ask.

6.God never manifests himself or performs miracles as he regularly did for the Israelites in Old Testament stories.

I see miracles in changed lives everyday.  I am one.  See above, faith is the key.

Psa 97:6 The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.

Ask God to take the scales from your eyes and you will see His majesty!  Creation celebrates the Creator!

7.Prayers are never answered. Certainly not in the way Jesus described. Prayer has absolutely no affect on the world around us.

I have seen prayers answered!  Prayer has great effect on the world, “greater is He than the one who is in the world”.  God is ,however, not a dispenser of miracles to be manipulated!  Jesus Himself asked God to pass the Cup of His death away, but that was not to be, Jesus also prayed,”Thy will not Mine.”  God will do His will, it is His will to at times manipulate things as we ask, but not always.  He is not existant to do our will, we exist to do His.  Do not put God to a test, He is above it.

8.Jesus did not fulfill major Old Testament prophesies or even fulfill his own promises and predictions.

Have you read Isiah 53?  And hundreds of others, from the book of Genesis on the bible points to Jesus!  And if you are going to start with “This generation shall not Pass” please remember there are still jews in the world, generation can also mean race.

Mar 15:28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.

There is one of many.

Jhn 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? Jhn 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

I could do this all day.

9.The authors of much of the Bible are unknown. And of these unknown authors, the men who wrote the gospels likely never even met Jesus considering they were written 40-70 years after his death. A far cry from reliable testimony.

This historical inaccuracy is glaring.

1Cr 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

This was written by Paul during the lifetime of people who had seen the Risen Savior.  Mark was dictated during Peter’s lifetime.  Read Lee Strobel, he does a better job than I of clearing this up.  The life of Jesus has more first person accounts than most of the things we accept in ancient history.  Many more. To clear up the matter, John was written by John, Luke was written by Luke, Micah was written by Micah,  there is a pattern here.  All was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

10.The Bible is repeatedly contradictory with itself, reality, and the laws of morality. Couldn’t God inspire a less poorly written book?

Use the link to Blue Letter Bible, there is a section on biblical “conflicts” that will help. These are the things that should be discussed in any good Sunday School.  There is no conflict of morality or reality.  For 66 books written on 3 continents over a thousand years the bible is remarkably coherent, miraculously so.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

11.The Bible is open to interpretation. Everyone interprets it in the way that suits them best or serves their purposes.

Scripture interprets scripture, the same Holy Spirit that inspired it is still available to interpret it.  I am so sorry that ,yes, people abuse and manipulate Scripture, and that is sinful  .  Apostasy began in the time of the book of Acts,  as the church formed so did Gnostic and apostate groups.  Here is a good guide for you, if someone “interprets” something in a way not seen before in a few hundred years, I will bet it is wrong.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

12.Throughout history, Christians have justified horrific actions by the Bible and its teaching.

Throughout history Christianity has been a mass of sinners run by sinners.  Horrible things have been done in the name of Christ.  I concede that point with remorse and we need to beg the mercy of God for what the Church has done.  None of it was done with true biblical mandate.  Most of it was done by groups and power structures who did not follow the bible, and in fact rebelled from it.

Jesus Himself criticized a group of Christians who were on the wrong track, He hated what they were doing, but the behavior of sinners is no excuse to reject the Savior. These words were spoken by the Risen Savior Himself.   It seems you and Christ have that in common.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

13.The Bible promotes hate and persecution against women, homosexuals and those who worship other gods or no god at all.

Those societies most influenced by Christianity, the societies we call Western, have the most women’s rights and the most rights for homosexuals. Compare us to Islam.  Homosexuals are killed!  Women still can not drive or own property.  Jesus’s group of supporters had many women, there are many church leaders, Lydia, Phoebe, mentioned in the bible.  The Jews were taught by God to honor all human life, except in time of war.   I find no base for these claims. Old Testament law concerning homosexuals was specific to the nation of Israel.  Paul stood on Mars Hill and respected the beliefs of others.  Scripture teaches not all are called, and to love our neighbor,  no mention of religious proclivity.

Hbr 12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

14.According to the Bible, nearly 70% percent of the people in the world will burn in hell because they don’t believe Jesus was the son of God.

Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

As a member of the 30% I thank God!  I also recognize my responsibility to tell the 70% about Jesus!

15.The only reason I was a Christian was because I was indoctrinated into the religion as a child as a result of the culture and region of the world in which I was born.

You were not a Christian, if that is the case.  God sees the heart not the membership card. No one is a Christian due to family or culture,  only when the Holy Spirit convicts of sin and brings the repentance that causes a fear of God do we make Christ the King of our lives and become a member of His flock.  You must become a new creature to be of the family of God.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

16.Christianity has no more rational or factual foundation than any other religion on earth that I openly reject.

I do not know what other religions you have rejected, I assume all of them. That may be a good start. Our foundation is Christ, rational, and quite factual.

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

17.The Christian church is disjointed and can’t even agree with one another.

Yes it is.  Mostly due to a lack of standing on the bible.  Man made rules and traditions are devisive.  You might be surprised how much bible based Christians agree, but we are human, fallible, and sinful.  Do not judge the King by His subjects!

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

18.Christians are not at all ethically or morally different from non-Christians.

I honestly apologize if that has been your experience.  Here is what a true Christian should be filled with:

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

19.Today, powerful church leaders steal, lie and molest young children. The church repeatedly attempts to cover up these atrocities, only to reluctantly apologize as a last resort.

Yes, again I concede and add that in my humble opinion it is going to get much worse. Any church that would attempt to cover such sin is no Church of Christ, it is a society of man using the things of God as weapons against an ignorant populace.

2 Peter 2

False Teachers

¹ There used to be false prophets among God’s people, just as you will have some false teachers in your group. They will secretly teach things that are wrong—teachings that will cause people to be lost. They will even refuse to accept the Master, Jesus, who bought their freedom. So they will bring quick ruin on themselves.² Many will follow their evil ways and say evil things about the way of truth.³ Those false teachers only want your money, so they will use you by telling you lies. Their judgment spoken against them long ago is still coming, and their ruin is certain.

1 Timothy 4

A Warning About False Teachers

¹ Now the Holy Spirit clearly says that in the later times some people will stop believing the faith. They will follow spirits that lie and teachings of demons.² Such teachings come from the false words of liars whose consciences are destroyed as if by a hot iron.³ They forbid people to marry and tell them not to eat certain foods which God created to be eaten with thanks by people who believe and know the truth.

20.It is absolutely irrational to continue to believe archaic teaching with the amount of knowledge we’ve gained through science and technology. The Bible reads like a book of primitive folklore, not divinely inspired insight into our true reason for existence.

Mark 12:31
“The second is this, ‘ YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Is this teaching outmoded?

Mark 12:33
AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE’S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

This one?

Romans 13:8
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

James 2:8
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ” YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,” you are doing well.

I hope these never go out of style.   There are many scientists that believe,and were brought to belief by their studies. One thing science can never provide is reasons for existance, that is out of the realm of science.  As one who has read a lot of  primitive folk lore,  I do not see the similarities.   The Bible is unique.

Peters words are true now as they were then.

⁸ But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: To the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as one day.⁹ The Lord is not slow in doing what he promised—the way some people understand slowness. But God is being patient with you. He does not want anyone to be lost, but he wants all people to change their hearts and lives.

¹⁰ But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The skies will disappear with a loud noise. Everything in them will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be exposed.^{[a] 11} In that way everything will be destroyed. So what kind of people should you be? You should live holy lives and serve God,¹² as you wait for and look forward to the coming of the day of God. When that day comes, the skies will be destroyed with fire, and everything in them will melt with heat.¹³ But God made a promise to us, and we are waiting for a new heaven and a new earth where goodness lives.

¹⁴ Dear friends, since you are waiting for this to happen, do your best to be without sin and without fault. Try to be at peace with God.¹⁵ Remember that we are saved because our Lord is patient. Our dear brother Paul told you the same thing when he wrote to you with the wisdom that God gave him.¹⁶ He writes about this in all his letters. Some things in Paul’s letters are hard to understand, and people who are ignorant and weak in faith explain these things falsely. They also falsely explain the other Scriptures, but they are destroying themselves by doing this.

¹⁷ Dear friends, since you already know about this, be careful. Do not let those evil people lead you away by the wrong they do. Be careful so you will not fall from your strong faith.¹⁸ But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Glory be to him now and forever! Amen.

Dan, We’ll miss You, till we meet again.

Our newest family member, Dan F. was called home to be with the Lord suddenly Sunday morning in his home.  There are as yet no details.  Dan was a recent addition to our fellowship, bringing a joy of the Gospel of Jesus and a real outgoing personality,  I will miss his voice saying, “Go on now,Tell it!” , as I preached.

Friday night we spoke for an hour on the phone.  Dan told me that he was ready to tell his story of sixty years in hope I would right a book about his life.  I will need to wait till I meet him in glory to hear it all, but let me share what I do know from his testimony.

Dan grew up in a large Italian family in New Jersey as the only white kid in the neighborhood.  It must not be easy to be a white minority member, but what was harder still is when the family finally moved to a white neighborhood, Dan did not fit in at all, as he was socialized in a African -American community and was never able to adjust to his new setting. Once again he was an outcast.  He said  he tried prison on the East Coast and the West Coast, and preferred neither.

Dan struggled with addiction and anger management.  He married a beautiful black woman he called the love of his life, and served as a deacon, the only white member of a black church,  and felt quite at home there.  Addiction has no respect for title.  Deacon, pastor, husband, the monster that is addiction can never be ignored or it will strike even after it has been pronounced dead. 

I met Dan after he left a Salvation Army  six month program.  Sixty years old and starting over once again.  The church gave him a grub stake to get proper clothes, and he began a menial job,  truly starting from the bottom again. What courage it must take to get up in the morning in a strange town,  alone, fight the good fight of life, working , battling addiction, trying to make amends with loved ones damaged by the selfishness that comes from the addicts life. Great faith is needed to gather strength to go on. 

We were at a homeless shelter feeding those gathered, when Dan gave his testimony.  People stood up as he walked from the podium and got in line to hug him.  I never saw that before.  His message of his own frailty and God’s power reached across racial and social lines with the power of a lumberjack’s ax.  His dependence on God’s mercy for a victory  gave hope to us all. 

When we last spoke there was a weariness in Dan’s voice.  It was the sound of a man who had packed three lifetimes of pain and struggle into one non-stop dramatic episode.  The world will not understand, but most of you will, a loving God gave Dan what he desired most,  peace and rest.   Death to the world is the end of life, to us it is the beginning.  Imagine Dan with an incorruptible body that has no destructive desires,  no damaged parts, no scars and war wounds.  Imagine him with a heart, not broken with failure and short coming, but filled with the awe of God.  Imagine him in a place where his speech patterns and color will be irrelevant.   That is Dan’s future, that is Dan’s eternity.

I feel privileged to have met Dan, to be a small part of his life, to have heard a small part of his story, and to have been his friend and pastor at the end of his earthly run.  It is a joy to know that Dayspring was a pleasure to him, and provided a church home for a short but important time. 

Dan died struggling with life,  I am  sure  he was in a period of victory ,  but even if he had  slipped  into defeat, but I am sure it would not  affect his Salvation.  Our future of being in His Presence does not depend on our victories in life, but in Christ’s Victories on the Cross!  Dan knew who His Savior was, why he needed Him, and fought the battle with all his might.  Can any of us do better?

Dayspring will have a memorial service for Dan F.  Sunday night  May 17th. We will be sad, yet we will celebrate.  We will invite Dan’s associates from the S.A. and the rooms he visited in meetings,  and celebrate the Victory that gives us the Great Hope.  There will be music and funny stories, and definitely, cake.  We will sing our songs of the faith, and also Against the Wind, a Seeger song that Dan said described much of his life.  Pray that flint hearts will be softened and the Word received. 

When I get before the Throne and start to praise my God for all Eternity, I just know there will be a voice in the background saying, “Yes!, go on now, Tell it!” Thanks Dan,  you were an encouragement.